MR. FLEISCHER: Good afternoon. Let me give you a report on the President's day, then I'll be happy to take your questions.
The President this morning spoke with President Mubarak of Egypt for about 15 minutes. They discussed the situation in the Middle East. President Bush made clear his disappointment with Chairman Arafat, including Chairman Arafat's failure to crack down on terrorism.
The two leaders emphasized the importance of peace and stability in the region. They both reaffirmed their commitment to continue to work towards this end, and they also agreed to continue close consultations between the United States and Egypt.
Following the call to President Mubarak, the President received a CIA and FBI briefing, then he convened a meeting of the National Security Council. The President will shortly be meeting with the Chairman of the Afghan Interim Authority, Hamid Karzai, in an Oval Office meeting. And then the President will proceed to the Rose Garden, where the two will make a statement to the press and take questions.
Following this, the President this afternoon will return to the domestic agenda, and the President will meet with various members of Congress to talk about strengthening and modernizing Medicare. And that's a report on the President's day; I'm happy to take your questions.
Q Ari, in the NSC meeting today, did this issue of treatment of the prisoners down in Guantanamo Bay come up? And can you describe a little bit how the President is wading through the disagreement among other officials about how to treat them and whether they are subject to the Geneva accords?
MR. FLEISCHER: Okay. Let me answer that to the best degree I can, David; I want to proceed with care. As you know, it is the longstanding policy that we don't talk about what's discussed in NSC meetings.
Having said that to be helpful, as you know, it's been publicly indicated by others, as for the people who are the detainees who are being held in Cuba, the determination has been made that they are not and will not be considered POWs. That in the tradition of this country, and it should go without saying, that anybody in the custody of our military will, at all times, be treated humanely. That is the American way.
As for some of the legal issues involving the applicability of the Geneva Convention, the President received the advice of his counsel and the President has made no determinations, having received that advice.
Q Can you explain what the advice was?
MR. FLEISCHER: No, I cannot get into any individual's advice to the President in an NSC meeting.
Q Can I follow on another point? In the context of disclosures regarding energy policy to the GAO, you have talked about the principle involved and how this would be viewed going forward. What about the concern about the principles involved in the treatment of detainees and how, rightly or wrongly, that may be seen by others around the world that could ultimately affect service personnel of the United States, or other Americans and their treatment?
MR. FLEISCHER: Aside from the fact that everything the government does should involve principles, I don't see the connection between the two. But the United States military, for hundreds of years, has always honored the traditions and the high calling of this nation to treat people well. And that's exactly what's happening in Cuba.
In Cuba, as a result of terrorists who moved to Afghanistan from other countries to be taught and trained in the art of how to kill innocents, how to blow themselves up and commit suicide in a way that takes the lives of others, these people were captured in terrorist camps and terrorist bases, at which they located themselves in Afghanistan. They fought in a war against the United States in which we had our men and women on the ground fighting. And for these people who are now detainees, the choice was either, be captured or be killed. And they've been captured.
And in being captured, they're lucky to be in the custody of our military, because they're receiving three square meals a day, they're receiving health care that they never received before. Their sleeping conditions are probably better than anything they've had in Afghanistan. And they're being treated well because they're in the hands of the men and women of our military. And they're being treated well, because that's what Americans do.
Within that there are legal issues that involve the Geneva Convention that are being looked at. And as I mentioned, they are going to always be treated humanely. They are not going to be considered POWs. They will be allowed, for example, to receive and to send correspondence. They will be allowed to receive and send—receive food and clothing, subject to proper security clearance screenings.
But one of the things, for example, if they were POWs, that they'd be entitled to, which they are not going to get, is going to be a stipend for tobacco. Those are things they would be entitled to. They'd be entitled to advances on their pay, if they were declared POWs. And the United States is not going to pay them stipends. I think that's widely supported.
Q It's not just the question of whether or not they are POWs. The Geneva Conventions provide for a review of each individual case, to determine whether that captive is POW or not. And it seems that the United States position is that the Geneva Conventions don't even apply as far as that. Why not? What is the administration's position why the Geneva Convention shouldn't apply at all?
MR. FLEISCHER: They will be treated in accordance with the principals of the Geneva Convention. There's no question about that. And the core of the Geneva Convention is focusing on humane treatment which is something the Americans have always done, and other nations around the world have not always done. We will do it because it's the right thing to do and it's the way our military treats people.
But as for the determination of whether they're POWs or not, what you have to recognize that is so different—and the President has always said this is a different kind of war, a new kind of war—is the situation surrounding the detainees in Cuba is unlike any conditions before, in previous wars, where there were simple, black and white cases of troops, typically who were drafted, who had been captured in accord with fighting for a recognized country.
That's not at all the case here. What you have here are typically non-uniformed, people who moved to Afghanistan—from more than 30 nations in the case of the detainees in Cuba—for the purpose of engaging in terror, not for the purpose of engaging in military combat, which is typically what you think of when you think of the Geneva Convention.
So as this nation, the United States, deals with a new type of war, we're also dealing with a new type of detention system — people in Cuba. And that means it's much more complicated than a simple reading of the Geneva Convention would imply. And that's why, frankly, I think it's a healthy process that's underway, where the lawyers are having a discussion about exactly how do you apply—the Geneva Convention was written in a very different era, following world war—to apply to the war on terrorism, where people don't wear uniforms, they are unlawful combatants and they come from 30 different nations, not any one recognized nation with whom the United States is fighting a war.
Q So out of that, just to nail it down, the United States is not going to provide an individual, case-by-case determination of whether or not these captives count as prisoners of war or not? We're just saying, blanket—they aren't even covered by the Geneva Convention.
MR. FLEISCHER: That issue is resolved. The issue is resolved. They are not POWs.
Q Ari, what about the Taliban fighters who were clearly fighting for their country's government? How can you not consider those as prisoners of war? And, secondly—
MR. FLEISCHER: That determination has been made. I am not an attorney and you can consult with attorneys—I know you all have and will—more specifically on the Geneva Convention. But, of course, United States never recognized the Taliban.
Q Well, what do you mean, they never—it was a government whether you recognized it or not.
MR. FLEISCHER: Well, maybe three countries in the world recognized it and, two, I'm—
Q Don't you think the United States should abide by a treaty that it signed?
MR. FLEISCHER: The United States is abiding by the core principles of that treaty.
Q What, if anything, is the administration doing to try to get this Wall Street Journal reporter out of Pakistan and what, if anything, can the administration do?
MR. FLEISCHER: In the case of Mr. Pearl, the State Department and the FBI have been in contact with the Pakistani government. He was a journalist just trying to do his job and this is a serious matter, and it is being pursued by the United States government with officials, as a reminder of the risks that journalists take, sadly, all around the world in the pursuit of journalism.
But the United States government has been in contact with the Pakistani authorities.
Q Asking them to do what and what, specifically, are we doing?
MR. FLEISCHER: Give whatever help can be given to obtain the release of him.
Q Ari, there were a lot of reports over the weekend that there was a different point of view coming out of Secretary Powell and the rest of the Cabinet. At the meeting today—I don't know if you can discuss this—but you said in the morning there was total unanimity on the issue.
MR. FLEISCHER: There is unanimity on the issue that they are not POWs. It just should go without saying that they will be treated humanely.
But there are legal issues that have been brought to the President's attention, and those are being discussed.
Q What—
MR. FLEISCHER: I am not going to describe anybody's individual conversations. This is a meeting of the NSC where the President wants to receive the counsel of all concerned, and allow them to do so privately and forthrightly.
Q POWs is now—that's it, no argument?
MR. FLEISCHER: It has not changed since David asked it to me, or Terry asked it to me or since you asked it to me. No change.
Q What was the response from the Pakistani government and what can the administration do besides ask them to help, if anything?
MR. FLEISCHER: Well, the first step is to talk to the Pakistani government, to seek their help, to try to gather whatever information is available. And that's the stage that it's at, Ron.
Q Do you know what their response was?
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MR. FLEISCHER: I would leave that to the Pakistanis to describe; it's not my place.
Q Ari, there are some religious leaders who are requesting that an ecumenical delegation be allowed to visit Guantanamo. Is that something that the administration would welcome?
MR. FLEISCHER: I think that's a request that needs to be made to DOD. Those issues are not White House determinations; those are determination of the Department of Defense.
Q Two questions. One, Chairman Arafat has fired some senior member of his security force and issued arrest warrants for two others on the Palestinian Authority security force. This appears to be in response to the very strong language this weekend from the White House.
First of all, your reaction, and then I have an Afghanistan question.
MR. FLEISCHER: The reaction from the President is that it is still incumbent on Chairman Arafat to prove on a long-going, reliable and regular basis that he is determined to stop terrorism and to crack down on terrorism in the areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority in the Middle East.
And there have been arrests made before where just as soon as people were arrested, they were let out through the back door of the jail cell. So any action that could be considered progress, the President would welcome. But the burden remains on Chairman Arafat to make continued, concrete steps, so that there can be no question that Chairman Arafat is dedicated to eliminating terrorism in the region, and the President has not yet seen such steps.
Q On Afghanistan, you mentioned a moment ago, as you frequently do, that it's a different kind of war. I'm wondering if it requires a different kind of assessment of peacekeeping. Many of the independent analysts who have looked at what Afghanistan needs most the word that most often comes to their lips is security, internal security, dealing with the warlords, pacifying, even disarming them.
You made it clear this morning the United States is not going to participate in a long-term international security force. I'm wondering if you can tell us why, since so many people who look at Afghanistan's internal problems say that's what is most necessary, and if the U.S. stepped up, then the world would know that security force is real, robust and long-term?
MR. FLEISCHER: At the heart of your question is participation in the security of Afghanistan. And the answer to that is, yes, the United States will participate in helping secure the future of Afghanistan. And it's doing that through a series of ways. First and foremost is through our military presence in Afghanistan, to fight a war. The security of Afghanistan will best be obtained as a result of the United States having eliminated the al Qaeda and the Taliban, and their ability to create insecurity in Afghanistan.
Secondly, and this is something the President will address directly with Chairman Karzai at his side, the President will announce today a series of steps the United States government—the United States government will take to help secure the future of Afghanistan, through financial means, through diplomatic means, through political means. The United States has been the largest donator of food to the people of Afghanistan. We continue in that role.
When you talk about security, certainly having the people fed is part of security. And the President is very, very proud of the fact that when this war began, people were talking about widespread famine in Afghanistan. Nobody talks about that now, because the United States fed the people of Afghanistan and the United States liberated the children and the women and the hungry of Afghanistan.
So to summarize on your question, the United States is and will be dedicated to the security of Afghanistan. It will be done as a result of the war that our military fought and a result of the financial and diplomatic actions our nation will now take.
Q Does the administration accept that warlordism continues and could continue to be a problem internally, in Afghanistan with or without al Qaeda or Taliban?
MR. FLEISCHER: Sure. I mean, the history of Afghanistan for the last 20 years has been domination by a communist occupier, and then internal turmoil and chaos as a result of infiltration of Afghanistan by the al Qaeda, people who came from a different country, to prey on the Afghani people, and warlordism, is a serious problem in Afghanistan and remains one.
Q If I can return you for a moment to the NSC meeting this morning. Set aside the POW issues, because that's not the issue under debate, The only issue under debate, as we understand it, is whether or not the Geneva Convention applies to all of these prisoners, and then you make other determinations about how you categorize.
You suggested that this was a legal issue and seemed to imply that it was an issue, therefore, that was going to be decided by lawyers. Obviously, you don't gather the President, the Vice President, the Secretary of State and others to decide an issue lawyers can decide. Who's making this decision—
MR. FLEISCHER: No, because I think it's obvious that the ramifications of legal issues can rise up to a higher level, especially when you deal with, as Helen put it, the applicability of the Geneva Convention. That's why. It's just on its face, it rises up to the President's level.
Q So the President will make this, and he will make it with legal advice, but it's fundamentally a political decision he's going to make?
MR. FLEISCHER: No, it's a combination of legal issues that have a broader application in terms of the applicability of the Geneva Convention.
Q And did this meeting result in a resolution of that issue, not the POW issue, but that issue of the Geneva Convention?
MR. FLEISCHER: No, as I indicated, no determination has been made this morning.
Q Ari, can we come back to the Afghan peacekeeping. If every nation said that our forces are for winning wars only, not for peacekeeping, there'd be no peacekeeping forces. What exempts us?
MR. FLEISCHER: If every nation used their military forces the way the United States did, there'd be no wars.
Q Is that going to happen anytime soon?
MR. FLEISCHER: That's the point. The United States uses its military for the purpose of fighting and winning wars, which has historically resulted in more peace around the world; it has historically resulted in nations that used to be enemies becoming friends—France and Germany, for example. And that is as a result of the fact that when our nation commits its military to war, it does so for high moral purposes, backed up by military might. And the world has always been a better place for it.
Having said that, that is the contribution that this President believes should be made, by our military, to fight and win a war. And he is pleased to work with the international community on a peacekeeping mission that would focus on other nations' activities around peacekeeping. That should not be a surprise to anybody. That's exactly what the President committed to during the campaign, and that's what he intends to do.
Q Since the war and homeland defense make up a big part of the budget increase for this year, and since those needs aren't likely to diminish any time soon, does the President agree that he's become an advocate for big government in a way?
MR. FLEISCHER: No, I think the President understands that the Constitution says the first mission of the government is to provide for the common defense, and that is what the President is now faced with and that is what our nation is faced with. That's what bipartisan leaderships—congressional leadership stand so unified on, that our nation is at war. And this is a shooting war in Afghanistan. And there are moments, as the President has said, where it will be less visible. There will be moments where it is going to be more visible, and that can be anticipated into the future.
But in all cases, the first mission of any President is to make sure that our men and women who are fighting a war have the material and the ability to fight and win that war. And, secondly, to protect our homeland. What so changed for Americans on September 11th was that we were vulnerable here, within our own borders, and that's virtually without precedent in our country, certainly without modem precedent, going back to Pearl Harbor.
And on the domestic side of it, I've heard the President say this privately any number of times — and I think he's now said it publicly — the single most important thing that can be done to protect America's economy and to keep people working is to prevent another terrorist attack on America. If there was another attack anywhere along the scale of September 11th or even close to it, it could have the potential to disrupt our economy once again, not only to cost lives, but to harm the fabric of our society and our economy that keeps us strong and free.
And we are seeing increasing evidence that the recession which began some 40 days after the President took office is getting ready to turn a corner. And the President is determined to make sure it turns that corner. That's why he so strongly wants the Congress to pass a stimulus bill so we don't take any chances and leave people unemployed any longer than is ever necessary. But it's also why homeland defense is so important to protecting our security and our liberty and our economy.
Q Just to sum up, is it accurate to say that the President and Colin Powell agree on the prisoner status but may have some difference of opinion on the finer legal points? That this was hashed over in today's NSC meeting and that now the President is considering altering his view of these legal issues in response to Mr. Powell?
MR. FLEISCHER: I would simply say that the President has made no determination yet. And I did not indicate to you who was representing any point of view. As I explained earlier, that's not my position to explain to you what any individuals say at a National Security Council meeting. I want to find that line to be helpful to you, to let you know something that took place at the NSC this morning, even though we typically do not talk about it. But I am not going to get into who said what at NSC.
Q Well, aside from the NSC meeting, is it accurate to say that Powell and the President have some difference of opinion on these finer legal points?
MR. FLEISCHER: The President always wants to encourage people in his Cabinet to come to him with their opinions and thoughts and do so in a manner that will respect their privacy, so he can get more of it.
Q Thank you.
MR. FLEISCHER: Thank you.
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Exercise 14.2
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2007 McGraw-Hill Higher Education